Pulling with the lead arm in the downswing?

[NCLefty]

All,

I've been playing around with the feeling of pulling the club from the top of the backswing with the lead knee, hip, then shoulder in a simple underarm flinging type motion. The back arm feels like it's just there to add structure to the assembly, with no conscious force being applied with that arm. When I do this properly, the downswing seems effortless and produces a nice, solid, lower trajectory shot that seems highly repeatable. I hit it a little shorter with this feeling but it seems so simple to me that there must be at least some validity to it. I've played around with this feel in the past but abandoned it as lunacy

Any comments on this? Is this a valid way to swing the club? Seems too easy.

NCLefty

[lefty]

Yes, Its a very valid way to swing the club. Its called "Swinging" in TGM world.
Direct the hands down the plane at the ball..

The underhand motion you are describing I dont know about, would have to see the swing. Im sure Mike can answer better for you.

[Michael Jacobs]

All,

I've been playing around with the feeling of pulling the club from the top of the backswing with the lead knee, hip, then shoulder in a simple underarm flinging type motion. The back arm feels like it's just there to add structure to the assembly, with no conscious force being applied with that arm. When I do this properly, the downswing seems effortless and produces a nice, solid, lower trajectory shot that seems highly repeatable. I hit it a little shorter with this feeling but it seems so simple to me that there must be at least some validity to it. I've played around with this feel in the past but abandoned it as lunacy

Any comments on this? Is this a valid way to swing the club? Seems too easy.

NCLefty

NCLefty,

Anything that improves the golfer's consistency of contact is valid. Different sensations felt by the golfer can facilitate changes in their pattern to help club orientation for contact. It does sound like a very good rendition of the 'Nuclear Swing pattern'
We would love to see some video if you can post it up, then we can zero in on the adjustments. For your info, your back arm is doing a lot work and participating even though your concept is to stabilize it. Perhaps, it used to be very over active.. just some food for thought from what I can gather from the provided information

[NCLefty]

Michael,

I think you are right when you say that my back arm may have been too overactive. I think you are also correct in saying that it sounds somewhat like the Nuclear Swing pattern, although I had forgotten the particulars from the DVD, and hadn't made that connection till you mentioned it. I think I'll go back and watch it again to refresh my memory.

It's funny. I had not been working on this pulling type feel recently, but while warming up before my round last Sunday, it just came out, and felt great. I hit about 10 pure irons with this feel to start my warm-up, and decided to try to carry it to the course. I was able to maintain it for 9 holes or so, but by the end of the round, I was back to the old swing feel. This week at the range, I had trouble recreating the good feeling, and was not really sure if it was something I should be toying with.

I will be coming to see you next month (June 1,2) , so maybe we can discuss this further. One of my current problems is that I realize that there are many different ways to swing a golf club successfully, and all the choices have become confusing for me. I'm sure you will be able to point me in the right direction.

NCLefty
Tracy Barber

[Michael Jacobs]

Michael,

I think you are right when you say that my back arm may have been too overactive. I think you are also correct in saying that it sounds somewhat like the Nuclear Swing pattern, although I had forgotten the particulars from the DVD, and hadn't made that connection till you mentioned it. I think I'll go back and watch it again to refresh my memory.

It's funny. I had not been working on this pulling type feel recently, but while warming up before my round last Sunday, it just came out, and felt great. I hit about 10 pure irons with this feel to start my warm-up, and decided to try to carry it to the course. I was able to maintain it for 9 holes or so, but by the end of the round, I was back to the old swing feel. This week at the range, I had trouble recreating the good feeling, and was not really sure if it was something I should be toying with.

I will be coming to see you next month (June 1,2) , so maybe we can discuss this further. One of my current problems is that I realize that there are many different ways to swing a golf club successfully, and all the choices have become confusing for me. I'm sure you will be able to point me in the right direction.

NCLefty
Tracy Barber

Tracy,

First off I would like to say I am looking forward to working with you and helping your golf game. June 1 and 2 will be here before you know it. Recreating a good feeling over time is almost completely elusive. As you start to create a feeling of a movement it will then become more and more a part of your system and the possibility of corruption in your feel is probable. WHen you try to master a certain technique progress comes from having a reliable set of parameters to work from with plenty of references so that you can develop an ingrained movement. The ultimate key is the Golf Club.. the golf club is an INANIMATE OBJECT... knowing how to best move the object will promote your body movements to best match the requirements of the golf club and give you the best chance for reliability.

Hope that helps!

[NCLefty]

When you try to master a certain technique progress comes from having a reliable set of parameters to work from with plenty of references so that you can develop an ingrained movement.

Mike,

I really liked your comments above. I feel like I'm currently missing that "reliable set to parameters with plenty of references". My situation is more like this - I have a bunch of miscellaneous parameters (some correct, some incorrect), all in a big pile in the corner of my brain, which I haphazardly pull out on the range to try to assemble into a golf swing. I exaggerate slightly, but only for effect

Really looking forward to June 1,2. I've been working really hard on my swing, and am hitting the ball reasonably well. I want to come to you hitting it as well as possible so we'll have a good starting point. I took some video on the range today that I will be reviewing shortly, and I hope it will show some progress.

My focus for the last several years has been re-shaping my backswing (flat, laid off, underplane, in-to-out). Some of the work I did with Brian focused on this, although we worked on several issues.

When I first started playing golf in 1985, a driving range pro convinced me that I should "swing as flat and around as possible on the backswing". I was a natural slicer right out of the box, and that was the only way he knew to fix it, and I didn't know enough to dismiss his advice. I swung this way for many years, with moderate success. Of course, that flat move became deeply ingrained, and is proving to be like moving a mountain to get rid of. I have been making good progress the last year or so, but still have a ways to go. I must admit that I am a bit obsessed with making a 'pretty' backswing. I understand that you don't hit the ball with the backswing (something that several instructors have brought to my attention), but I simply can't accept the fact that I can't take the club back in an orthodox manor. It's driving me quite mad, really. I have downswing issues too, but that's another tale for another post Just as a side note, when I'm working on my backswing, I visualize Tom Watson's backswing. Actually, I love his swing overall.

It will be interesting to get your take on all this. Hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

Tracy

ps : How do I post video on your site?

[Phana24JG]

ps : How do I post video on your site?

I find the easiest way is via Youtube. Upload your video onto Youtube. Copy the webpage that is on Youtube using the Insert Link tool (the little green thing that appears right under the emoticon shortcut above.

If you do not know how to post to Youtube, let us know and someone will PM you the details. I had no idea how to do this stuff, that is why I got married.

[NCLefty]

Mike,

Here's a recent clip of me with a 9 iron DTL. Not great, but it's the best I've got on video.