Irons

[sharkey35]

Mike,

I was a little surprised by your comments in another thread that the Ping Eye 2's were some of the best irons ever (figured you as a blade guy, not sure why). Could you give us a sense of why you feel that way? Are you not impressed with iron designs over the last 20 + years?

Bobby Clampett is critical of "game improvement" clubs and has a theory that they can actually hurt your game. There is a lot of debate on equipment forums as to whether a weekend player should be playing with anything resembling a blade. Your thoughts?

Any thoughts on forged vs. cast.

I am currently in the camp of the head not making a huge difference (among quality products) but the shaft being much more important.


Bob

[Michael Jacobs]

Mike,

I was a little surprised by your comments in another thread that the Ping Eye 2's were some of the best irons ever (figured you as a blade guy, not sure why). Could you give us a sense of why you feel that way? Are you not impressed with iron designs over the last 20 + years?

Bobby Clampett is critical of "game improvement" clubs and has a theory that they can actually hurt your game. There is a lot of debate on equipment forums as to whether a weekend player should be playing with anything resembling a blade. Your thoughts?

Any thoughts on forged vs. cast.

I am currently in the camp of the head not making a huge difference (among quality products) but the shaft being much more important.


Bob

Bob,
Figured me as a blade guy? I used to play with the Hogan Red Lines of the late 1980's, first official set that I got and used them on and off with Tommy Armour 845's for a long time. After that went through all kinds of clubs, not really for my own game but to try them out for curiosity more than anything. Ping Eye2's are hard to beat, gotta be one of the all time best selling irons. As you asked, definitely not impressed with iron club designs over the past years. I go to the PGA show every year and walk the line at the Demo Day and see every vendor and they all look the same year after year. It is a little ridiculous how they come out with a new model every 6 weeks as opposed to ones like the Ping Eye 2 and designs that lasted years. I see no need for changing iron models that rapidly, we have our 2 models of Explosive Designs and I see no need for any adjustments anytime soon. Our 'Core' game improvement iron is a huge success, everyone has given good feedback.

When you start to discuss iron head design the amount of offset between the center of mass of the club head and the shaft is a very big factor when you are selecting the head shape of your choice. Traditional club talk always talks about the offset of the clubs but I am not so sure they have educated the public on exactly how it effects the impact. The more offset, the further back the center of gravity is placed from the shaft. As the club approaches the ball, the center of gravity of the head is going to make the shaft deflect so that it pulls in line with the hands. The more offset will there create more 'dynamic loft' and more 'dynamic close' - this means the club head is going to want to tilt back as the center of gravity seeks to line up and also the toe of your club will also deflect down slightly and create a 'closing' of the face. This phenomenon is unavoidable and is much more exaggerated when you swing a driver because the club head is bigger and the center of gravity of the club head is much further back from the shaft.

You will often find better players wanting to avoid the extra offset in their irons as they want to remove the variability of the extra 'closing' and 'loft' increase. It is however, easy to see the benefits for the beginner or high handicap golfer by gaining assistance through extra loft and extra face closing.

Cast vs Forged - a matter of personal preference and choice, golfer feel is going to be a very personal choice. Cost is also a factor as forged clubs go through more of a development process and therefore has more of a cost. FYI, I play a cast club.

I don't agree with HEAD not making a difference and the SHAFT being most important. This is a very common myth in golf, shafts selection is much more of a function of weight and golfer preference. The whole SHAFT FLEX FREQUENCY stuff is a complete farce. It may have some merit as a point of reference but has no use when a club is in the golfer's hands. Putting a club in a VISE and getting a frequency means nothing to the golfer with the club in their hands. The shaft will affect the amount of dynamic loft gain or close, so shafts really only can help you orientate the club face, they offer no kick or speed gain.
You may find these things different from what you normally here, but those are the real facts. Also, gives you a little bit of the information that I will be publishing, Should lead to an interesting discussion one day

[sharkey35]

Thanks for such a thorough reply. I guess its a bit of trial and error on the feel part and getting on a Flightscope if possible. Looking forward to the published material.

[RASWING]

Tried to get a set today off ebay no luck !!! Was out bid.... Also called the repair division of that company and they said $17.50 per club head to re-finish them and if you needed new shafts then it would be say an extra 32 bucks.... so roughly 50 bucks a stick....

Break-----

MJ,
So reshafting the heads I have wont really help me it will only help the feel through out the swing..... I thought I would need some HL steel shafts to help my LA match my swing speed per trackman..... As I have a pretty good FLW and a AOA with the six iron Aoa -3.5 to - 4. Right now I play with the Graphite Fuji Shafts in the irons and I have the lie 2 degrees flat but I still alway start my ball left of my target.

So are my shafts the cause of the face closing with the shaft droop and the " Dynamic closing" They have very minimal off set. The heads are designed to hit low balls as the VCOG is pretty high on those clubs...

Please help me understand how to get my equipment to match my desired LA with the irons....

So what should i be asking ? in regards to my heads and off set and shafts combo....?

[gspmjp]

Mike,
I have a set of Eye 2+ in my basement. Same as the original Eye 2's? Also do you think they are a better head design than the I3+ blades I use.
Also reading about club off set and the toe closing to line up the cg at impact would that be something to look at if your ball moves too far left. Just thinking out loud. It's been a long winter can't wait to take a lesson.

Mike Pepa

[Michael Jacobs]

Tried to get a set today off ebay no luck !!! Was out bid.... Also called the repair division of that company and they said $17.50 per club head to re-finish them and if you needed new shafts then it would be say an extra 32 bucks.... so roughly 50 bucks a stick....

Break-----

MJ,
So reshafting the heads I have wont really help me it will only help the feel through out the swing..... I thought I would need some HL steel shafts to help my LA match my swing speed per trackman..... As I have a pretty good FLW and a AOA with the six iron Aoa -3.5 to - 4. Right now I play with the Graphite Fuji Shafts in the irons and I have the lie 2 degrees flat but I still alway start my ball left of my target.

So are my shafts the cause of the face closing with the shaft droop and the " Dynamic closing" They have very minimal off set. The heads are designed to hit low balls as the VCOG is pretty high on those clubs...

Please help me understand how to get my equipment to match my desired LA with the irons....

So what should i be asking ? in regards to my heads and off set and shafts combo....?

RA,

A golf shaft plays a huge role in how the face of the golf club is orientated at impact. The Dynamic closing is far more influential in a driver and minimal in an iron. Hybrids are an interesting topic as some of the hybrid faces and their center of gravity look very far forward. Would be interesting to locate the exact CG on some of these hybrids.

When you are looking at your launch conditions and trying to optimize, how much do you think your complications are from equipment or from technique? There is always that fine line of how consistently the golfer can orientate the face that gives us the best chance for fit. People always ask if they are experienced enough to warrant custom clubs. I always answer by saying everyone should get fitted as their is little to no extra cost and gives you a great start. Obviously the sophistication of the fitting will be different based on level but there is always room for equipment personalization.

I see you said that you always start the ball left, any down the line film of your swing with the camera on the ball line?

[Michael Jacobs]

Mike,
I have a set of Eye 2+ in my basement. Same as the original Eye 2's? Also do you think they are a better head design than the I3+ blades I use.
Also reading about club off set and the toe closing to line up the cg at impact would that be something to look at if your ball moves too far left. Just thinking out loud. It's been a long winter can't wait to take a lesson.

Mike Pepa

Michael,

Golf season is finally here, just did the 1st day and 1st round of lessons for 2011. I think the Eye'2 are far better than the I3 blade, no comparison in my opinion. The dynamic closing and loft change is a very big issue with the driver, I am sure you have seen benefits from the shaft change you made at the end of last year to the shaft that I have used the Aura red. As for the iron shots, the lead deflection of the face which causes the dynamic face phenomenon is far less than the driver.
When you come for your first lesson feel free to bring the Eye 2's and we will take a look, they can put any shaft in them at the factory when they refurbish them. See you soon!
PS - Did you get that white taylor made driver? I would bet you would be the 1st one I see on the lesson tee this year

[Michael Jacobs]

Tried to get a set today off ebay no luck !!! Was out bid.... Also called the repair division of that company and they said $17.50 per club head to re-finish them and if you needed new shafts then it would be say an extra 32 bucks.... so roughly 50 bucks a stick....

Break-----

MJ,
So reshafting the heads I have wont really help me it will only help the feel through out the swing..... I thought I would need some HL steel shafts to help my LA match my swing speed per trackman..... As I have a pretty good FLW and a AOA with the six iron Aoa -3.5 to - 4. Right now I play with the Graphite Fuji Shafts in the irons and I have the lie 2 degrees flat but I still alway start my ball left of my target.

So are my shafts the cause of the face closing with the shaft droop and the " Dynamic closing" They have very minimal off set. The heads are designed to hit low balls as the VCOG is pretty high on those clubs...

Please help me understand how to get my equipment to match my desired LA with the irons....

So what should i be asking ? in regards to my heads and off set and shafts combo....?

Ping EYE 2's

I have some sets of ping that have been redone with KBS shafts, if anyone wants a set or wants me to take a pic of them I can as I will probably sell some of the sets. I know off the top of my head I have eye 2 beryllium and a pristine set of K1 original Karsten ones. Beautiful clubs! Ping is coming out with this club this year, I ordered 2 for myself and 24 for my pro shop. They have a brand new Ping Eye 2 XG wedge.. beautiful!

[RASWING]

MJ,
The EYE 2 set I'm in whats the price? Please send the info and pic to wgolf131@aol.com
R/
RA

[RASWING]

MJ,
I will break out the camera... I will get some new video... So on the target line.... down the line ? with a set target in the foreground

R/
RA