How to reduce curvature in the ball flight

[RASWING]

MJ,
As we know that the ball moves away from the path.. So how do we reduce curvature in ball flight? As we are starting to understand spin axis and club face and divergent paths.... but how do we develop a pattern to hit it straighter.... Also is a scenario like this a real one that we could work with....

If you have a limited pivot hip movement.... stronger than normal grip to keep the ball from going right, swing path left to keep it from hooking to much and get more axis tilt would that be a realistic way to get the ball around the course.

[Michael Jacobs]

MJ,
As we know that the ball moves away from the path.. So how do we reduce curvature in ball flight? As we are starting to understand spin axis and club face and divergent paths.... but how do we develop a pattern to hit it straighter.... Also is a scenario like this a real one that we could work with....

If you have a limited pivot hip movement.... stronger than normal grip to keep the ball from going right, swing path left to keep it from hooking to much and get more axis tilt would that be a realistic way to get the ball around the course.

RA,

Sounds like I need to share some insights of what I will be publishing to help you in a quick real world understanding of helping your ball flight.

Let's assume a centered strike - WHICH IS A VERY BIG ASSUMPTION!


The Initial Launch Direction Analysis:

The Initial Direction of the Ball's Launch is only very slightly towards the path of the swing. So the initial launch is very rich in club face direction.

So let's say you start the ball right of the hole and then it spins off even more right. You can safely say that your face was right -- slightly right of the initial launch of the ball and your swing path was LEFT of that club face. The 'left of the face' swing path created curvature

So I suggest seeing the initial launch and doing a quick analysis.. if you want to work the ball - SWING LEFT OR RIGHT of your club face's projection at impact.

If you search the annals of golf books, you will always see the high end player's reference to VISUALIZING THE SHOT.. In my opinion they were doing a form of this...


As for part 2 of the question, I am not understanding.. A limited hip pivot? Please describe

[RASWING]

Thanks for the ball flight info again its great... How would we work on that start direction with the dowel in the ground in front of the target say 5 feet or so and try to start the ball on either side using the club face?


The hip pivot part I wasn’t that clear to myself...LMAO...

This is what I meant I think.... I have a limited pivot been working on it a tone…. I slide left before so my head, left shoulder and swing center moves forward before I get open its very subtle. I start the arms coming down been working on it but no luck….. but I have great club face control and a pretty consistent swing arc and I hit down on the ball according to my TM testing with my 6 iron -3 degrees... But my pivot is a little faulty as I don’t get open enough on the through swing and on the back swing I don’t turn deeper with my hip its limited in the backswing and does get open enough on the through swing. So saying I had a stronger grip not left palm down but palm angled to the right more to aid my face being a bit closed or square and sung left of that face angle to me I would hit what some would call a slight pull cut and if I managed to get my hips open enough and left should up and back enough and have enough right side bend to delay the amount the club face closes I would hit a dead straight ball with little curvature?

V/R
RA

[Michael Jacobs]

Thanks for the ball flight info again its great... How would we work on that start direction with the dowel in the ground in front of the target say 5 feet or so and try to start the ball on either side using the club face?


The hip pivot part I wasn’t that clear to myself...LMAO...

This is what I meant I think.... I have a limited pivot been working on it a tone…. I slide left before so my head, left shoulder and swing center moves forward before I get open its very subtle. I start the arms coming down been working on it but no luck….. but I have great club face control and a pretty consistent swing arc and I hit down on the ball according to my TM testing with my 6 iron -3 degrees... But my pivot is a little faulty as I don’t get open enough on the through swing and on the back swing I don’t turn deeper with my hip its limited in the backswing and does get open enough on the through swing. So saying I had a stronger grip not left palm down but palm angled to the right more to aid my face being a bit closed or square and sung left of that face angle to me I would hit what some would call a slight pull cut and if I managed to get my hips open enough and left should up and back enough and have enough right side bend to delay the amount the club face closes I would hit a dead straight ball with little curvature?

V/R
RA

RA,

Laying something on the ground may be a help in estimating how the club face is projecting for the impact. If the club face and the path diverge from each other, the ball will be very likely to curve.

When the path is left of the face - expect a slice spin axis

When the path is right of the face - expect a hook spin axis

As for your questions on the pivot, the more the handle of your golf club tilts forward at the impact the more and more you will need to 'open' the body. Sounds like everything you are describing lends itself to more a palm down left hand grip. If the center of your body is moving excessively forward early on the downswing it will not allow you to have as dynamic of the pivot on the way through. I would definitely make sure your upper body is 'closed' to your pelvis and assess the forward tilt of the handle as well as the HEIGHT of the handle at the impact. What I mean by the 'height' is how much has the handle raised or lowered during the stroke.

As always, it may be time to shoot a little video and post it up so we can take a peek.

[RASWING]

MJ,
Thanks a bunch for the insight I will work on getting some video up. I fight a draw and to much right to left ball curve I will work on it thas why I think i move left in the downswing to try to save it from going to far right. I have been doing test and my face looks left I start the ball left of the target or its projecting left a bit closed.
R/
RA

[RASWING]

MJ,
As we talk about reducing curve in the ball flight..

I wanted to know if there is any merit in separating the club in three parts in the training of FACE/ PATH/ AoA?

What would be a way to practice club face control?

Whats the way to work on path tracing a straight plane line not swing to far under it or over it ? The path/ball

Whats the way to work on AoA ... Is that the relationship to how the pivot works ? Getting a straight left leg on the down swing left shoulder more up and back and the left side rib cage more on a wall so to speak, and the proper amount of axis tilt / ride side bend?


Been making really progrees been seeing really nice ball flight high and tsraight with just a bit of tail left or right as the ball falls from the sky.... Wind effect also the key that i have asked much is a solid strike in the center of the club face....

MJ,

There is a few things I have noticed when my club face on the irons look left to my view from the top I hit the ball more in the center of the face. Closed looking face in relationship to the dowel on the ground but when I have it; what looks square to the target its more out toward the toe ( more draw spin ) so is there any relationship to the solid feel of the face looking left and the ball mark more center on the sweet spot, than when its square to the dowle on the ground?

R/
RA

[Michael Jacobs]

MJ,
As we talk about reducing curve in the ball flight..

I wanted to know if there is any merit in separating the club in three parts in the training of FACE/ PATH/ AoA?

What would be a way to practice club face control?

Whats the way to work on path tracing a straight plane line not swing to far under it or over it ? The path/ball

Whats the way to work on AoA ... Is that the relationship to how the pivot works ? Getting a straight left leg on the down swing left shoulder more up and back and the left side rib cage more on a wall so to speak, and the proper amount of axis tilt / ride side bend?


Been making really progrees been seeing really nice ball flight high and tsraight with just a bit of tail left or right as the ball falls from the sky.... Wind effect also the key that i have asked much is a solid strike in the center of the club face....

MJ,

There is a few things I have noticed when my club face on the irons look left to my view from the top I hit the ball more in the center of the face. Closed looking face in relationship to the dowel on the ground but when I have it; what looks square to the target its more out toward the toe ( more draw spin ) so is there any relationship to the solid feel of the face looking left and the ball mark more center on the sweet spot, than when its square to the dowle on the ground?

R/
RA

Great questions RA,

The look of a club 'squared' has a couple of variables.

#1 would be how much forward or backward lean the handle and the shaft have. If the club has excessive lean forward, the club face will need to have more of a closed look for squaring. If the club has a lot of backward lean, the club face will need to have more of an open look for squaring.

Holding the club up in the air so that it is 'parallel to the ground' is probably the best way to see the squaring requirements of the club face. The angle of attack has a direct relationship to these features.

I am a large proponent of training with the club up in the air so that it is horizontal to the ground. When the club is horizontal or parallel to the ground, you now have defined reference points. When the club is tilted in its normal state {an incline} reference points are very fuzzy.

So I would train the face - shaft - attack angle with the club parallel to the ground. A quick little movie on the subject.

[RASWING]

MJ,
Thanks I will do the work to get the true picture. This has really helped me understand.
R/
RA

[RASWING]

MJ,
Wanted to ask today with the 5 iron and 4 iron I was hitting a bit of a push ; I have been hitting a baby baby draw very little curve a ball that flies to the apex and then falls a bit left as it descends.

But today as I have been working on the table top drill and the well timed release, also monitoring my CP of the hands.

As my AOA has gotten more shallow I have been hitting a few more push shots with the 5 iron and 4 iron , shots that start dead straight on my 1 yard right of the target aim and doesn’t move at all, Then I tried to aim dead at the flag and hit what looks like a dead straight push

But when I tried to hit down a bit more than the shallow angle that the well timed release produces for me I get a dead straight shot at the flag or a baby draw. So hit down more right. Lol

It doesn’t happen with the 6 iron on down.... I have to hit a bit more 5 irons and 4 irons on this course I am playing so I was practicing the clubs after the round tonight. (I love driving ranges with lights by the way)

Seriously though can you help me understand?

I thought about the D plane and the two vectors?

I thought about club face / center contact?

I thought about swing path/ aim to far right of the target?

When hitting off the ground I need to aim/ and or swing left

The 5 iron is driving me nuts I understand it’s a long shot and tour average from 175 to 185 is around 31 ft ... but how many pushes are they hitting with the 5 iron?

Please help my friend I am stumped on what to do....

V/R
RA

[Michael Jacobs]

MJ,
Wanted to ask today with the 5 iron and 4 iron I was hitting a bit of a push ; I have been hitting a baby baby draw very little curve a ball that flies to the apex and then falls a bit left as it descends.

But today as I have been working on the table top drill and the well timed release, also monitoring my CP of the hands.

As my AOA has gotten more shallow I have been hitting a few more push shots with the 5 iron and 4 iron , shots that start dead straight on my 1 yard right of the target aim and doesn’t move at all, Then I tried to aim dead at the flag and hit what looks like a dead straight push

But when I tried to hit down a bit more than the shallow angle that the well timed release produces for me I get a dead straight shot at the flag or a baby draw. So hit down more right. Lol

It doesn’t happen with the 6 iron on down.... I have to hit a bit more 5 irons and 4 irons on this course I am playing so I was practicing the clubs after the round tonight. (I love driving ranges with lights by the way)

Seriously though can you help me understand?

I thought about the D plane and the two vectors?

I thought about club face / center contact?

I thought about swing path/ aim to far right of the target?

When hitting off the ground I need to aim/ and or swing left

The 5 iron is driving me nuts I understand it’s a long shot and tour average from 175 to 185 is around 31 ft ... but how many pushes are they hitting with the 5 iron?

Please help my friend I am stumped on what to do....

V/R
RA

RA,

There are a lot of variables mentioned in that post to give you a specific answer to help you with your 5 iron. It is a bit odd that 1 club feels dramatically different. Your thoughts are all in the ballpark and I would keep experiementing