Controlling the upper body

[Jay Schwarz]

Michael,

You swing thoughts about starting the downswing with the right shoulder and hands going at the ball has helped a bunch. I had a tendency to leave the right shoulder high, and drop the arms kind of like what you see in John Jacobs books. Didn't work very well for me.

But, the issue I'm having is on difficult holes, I tend to heave my whole upper body at the ball throwing my head toward the target, the right should toward the target line, and the the club either goes over the top or pulls wildly left. The ball usually flies short, low, and very left.

Any drills or thoughts to get the shoulder movement on the downswing exactly right?? Thanks!

[Michael Jacobs]

Michael,

You swing thoughts about starting the downswing with the right shoulder and hands going at the ball has helped a bunch. I had a tendency to leave the right shoulder high, and drop the arms kind of like what you see in John Jacobs books. Didn't work very well for me.

But, the issue I'm having is on difficult holes, I tend to heave my whole upper body at the ball throwing my head toward the target, the right should toward the target line, and the the club either goes over the top or pulls wildly left. The ball usually flies short, low, and very left.

Any drills or thoughts to get the shoulder movement on the downswing exactly right?? Thanks!

Jay,

Sounds like a common issue, have you ever considered monitoring your pelvis (hip movements) ?? Sounds like you are trying your best to train your upper body but a large portion of what the upper body can do relates heavily to what the lower body is doing.

I would emphasis three motions of the pelvis all blended together on the downswing.

1. A movement side ways of the pelvis {also called slide or sway}

2. A movement of the pelvis back behind you {counter acts any type of thrusting the pelvis towards the ball}

3. A rotational opening

I would rehearse all 3 and blend them together and it will promote a better upper body move.

[Eugd]

mike can you explain #2 a litte more?

[Michael Jacobs]

mike can you explain #2 a litte more?

Good question Eugene,

One of the most undesirable moves a golfer can make is to thrust their pelvis at the ball on the downswing. I am going to suggest to you that the excess pelvic thrust comes from a faulty hand path, but in the meantime let us just focus in on the pelvic movement.

Here is a document from my research and studies files {this is a first peak as I keep these confidential} They will all be in my published work.




I am going to suggest to you that golfers with a poor hand path will require pelvic thrust in the neighborhood of 3-6 inches towards the ball into impact. This pelvic thrust, is one of the bedrock moves of the higher handicap player but you never see it discussed. There is a strong correlation between the outward movement of the club towards the ball and how much pelvic thrust the golfer needs to apply to make contact with the ball. So when you look at #2 in the above posting, I recommended the sensation of a backing up of the pelvis on the downswing for those that are thrusting forward in excess of 3-6 inches towards the ball. Hope that clears it up for you.

FOr those that don't know, Eugene is a Occupational Therapist and we we would love to hear his input time to time on body movements. So Eugene, what are some features of pelvis thrust that we as golfers need to know about from a biomechanics prospective???

[GaryRead]

I dont like to admit it, but I think I suffer from this from time to time.

I can see it in some videos from last year.

Im wondering if the 'feeling' of swinging left more (not to be mistaken for ott) for me may help this pelvic thrusting? This may improve my hand path and stop this movement.

I think I try to to get the ball from the inside too much which leads to other actions which ultimately leads to the pelvic movment towards the ball, rather than a turn through, even if it may feel like im coming across the ball.

I might work on this tonight, swinging left with irons and looking at the flight etc

[Michael Jacobs]

I dont like to admit it, but I think I suffer from this from time to time.

I can see it in some videos from last year.

Im wondering if the 'feeling' of swinging left more (not to be mistaken for ott) for me may help this pelvic thrusting? This may improve my hand path and stop this movement.

I think I try to to get the ball from the inside too much which leads to other actions which ultimately leads to the pelvic movment towards the ball, rather than a turn through, even if it may feel like im coming across the ball.

I might work on this tonight, swinging left with irons and looking at the flight etc

It is a very common occurrence, if the golfers hand path comes very much from the 'inside-out' they will commonly thrust their pelvis towards the ball in an attempt to get the club head to the ball for impact. When we do the 3D measurements we often see the poorly timed golfer have large thrusts towards the ball. A better hand and club path is the key for thrust improvements. Of all the studying of research, the pelvic thrust is a strong correlation to hand and club path

[Eugd]

Sorry been busy with the kids the last few days and could not post my response to your question. Most people who work a 9-5 or greater job tend to sit or slouch a lot. as a result of sitting in poor anatomical positions, it has a effect on how the person positions there legs to help compensate for poor posture to help keep them balanced while sitting. This causes tightness in the hip and leg joints and muscles and also effects the trunk and developing a rounding (kyphosis of the hip and back) over time this position becomes a natural feeling, as result of the individuals position of comfort over a prolonge time. In fact sitting in good posture would become tiering and draining for a individual because gravity is pulling on them during the time they are sitting. believe it or not but, a person cans spend more energy on the the act of sitting in good anatomical alignment for a prolonged time rather than apply that energy to there work at hand . most individuals find it difficult to sit upright each day at a desk job or jsut surfing the net. Just think about your body postion right now are you sitting tall? Thus limitations in the trunk, pelvis and legs result.
A pelvis normally moves forward and back in a tilting motion, it requires the trunk and legs to assist it to move in a rotation motion, and when you integrate a lateral move for the pivot, you need several neurological systems (vestibular and proprioception) to assist. this is why the a simple hip turn is difficult for the average individual and most golfers use the upper body because the trunk and arms are easier to move with limited turning of the hips or thrusting the hips forward because its more natural to they muscles that they use through out the day and mostly when sitting. as you see in Mike's diagram the "C" individual looks like he is sitting and also thrusting the hips. Hope this helps and does not confuse...Eugene